Allie makes good points, I'd like to address them in terms of what I said, because I think some may be taking what I said stronger than what I meant it to be(which I think is due to my somewhat poor choice of words).


So, I want it to be known that at all points in which I say wrong, I mean a wrongness that I feel, not a moral wrongness, like, say how you may do some drug that you aren't comfortable with because you wanted to just try it but it just makes you feel wrong, that is the sense of wrong I mean, I don't mean, wrongness in the sense of: it is wrong to own slaves.


If you take the way I use wrongness to mean the latter, Allie, it is very understandable why you would take what I'm saying to be judgmental, because in fact, if that's the meaning I'm using for wrong, you're right, that is judgmental.


I also want to reiterate that you are right in all you said about it being important to recognize the difference between consuming alcohol and being drunk.


Your point about control I found amusing, too, because, largely I find it true that people who go on and on about control as their reason for not using alcohol general do indeed have a very deeply wrong conception of control, and a general air of self-deception that they carry around with them in everything they do.


Now, if it wasn't the wrongness aspect of what I said that struck you as arrogant, then I bet it was my last paragraph, in which I kind've just put out a conclusion with no premises because I was lazy in my typing at that point so I think I should flesh out more that last point so you see fully what I was trying to get at.


The heart of the selfishness I'm speaking of lies in intention. I really think it matters what reasoning someone comes into a situation with. For example, I think we'd all think that sex with one of the most prevailing intentions being actual affection (or some degree of love) for the individual you are engaged in it with is more morally right than sex without that but with mere desire for sexual pleasure or sexual release of tension. If you concede that these two cases of sexual interaction are equally moral (or equally immoral) then you are operating on a different (but not less moral) overall moral standard than lots of people including me. Each moral code seems to be basically equal (I admit this is a claim of debate but I don't want to get into the specifics of moral relativism versus absolutism right now because that's boring, so bear with me), so if you do not operate in the same moral code in which the sex case of morality I mentioned applies, disregard everything I'm about to say because it does not follow from the same moral code you hold (which is to not say you are less moral, but rather that you simply have DIFFERENT morals). I realized just now I should add something to what I said about the morality of intention and sex: it would, it seems to me and I bet lots of others, sex where both individuals know the true intention of the other,even if it's mere pleasure or sexual release,is basically equally moral to the case involving affection, it only becomes less moral if one has intentions that he/she knows are not what the other perceives his/her intentions to be, and thus there is a situation in which someone is without speaking the lie, in fact lying in virtue of not disclosing his/her true intentions.

So if you agree with all that, I see no reason why you would not agree with the following (and, Allie, I really think you will after reading your last post, we just had a misunderstanding of points, I think). There are many reasons why someone chooses to smoke weed or drink (you'll see why I'm using the weed example as well), some use alcohol with the intention of loosening themselves up so that they can facilitate a better time for those around them, others use it communally (to share an alcohol a group of people want to enjoy together, experiencing together a similar taste and feeling), and some use weed in moderate amounts to help them to get their creative juices flowing or to focus (my girlfriend has severe ADD and uses weed for this rather frequently since she hasn't had the time to see a doctor for a prescription of ADD medicine), now these reasons, based on my gut reaction in virtue of the moral code I described and hold, seem to not be bad or selfish intentions. The specifics of why seem to be what I described in my first post about there seeming to be something more righteous in doing things that relate to things outside of yourself. Now, drinking alcohol to feel happiness and overall well-being as your primary intention, and to smoke weed in order to separate yourself from the outside world and to get the "tinglys" as I like to jokingly call them (anyone who's smoked knows when you have enough you feel a mild ecstasy over your whole body). Those seem, on gut reaction, to not be as good of intentions as the other intentions I mentioned earlier (I attempted to get at maybe why this is the case in my first post, but I should've clarified that these are the intentions I was critiquing). Those seemingly wrong intentions seem equivalent to taking a drug that simply gives you ecstasy whenever you wish it without any other side effects or change to your outward appearance, doesn't it seem barbaric to want such ecstasy for no reason at all just simply because you want it, no doubt you'd get addicted to it if you started using it (anybody would) and then your experience of everything would no longer be how things really are and you would ignore things in your life that were hard but rewarding because you could instead be sitting in a chair feeling fake happiness and ecstasy. I probably need to flesh this example out more, but I hope you all get the picture.


It seems to me now important to mention why I started thinking along this line in the first place. One of my girlfriend's friends was over and going on and on one night how she just wanted to be drunk right then, no reason at all, she just for no good reason wanted to be drunk, and when we asked her further what she meant, she just said, "I just want to sit in my room alone and be drunk." There was no reason, she hadn't been in a stressful situation she wanted to escape from, she didn't want to get drunk and have a good time with others, she didn't want to drink communally, she just wanted to sit in her room and feel the pleasure of drunkenness...and lots of people at my college are like that, they just love to feel drunk, for the sake of feeling that way, with no other intention. That seems pretty dumb to me, and that's the kind of thing I meant all along to be attacking and describing, not drinking with those other intentions.


It may seem stupid to say this, but seriously, thank you for responding intelligently, you clearly have the "mental capacity," to read intelligently (though I don't think one need be any more than an average reader to parse out what I say, I don't claim to be some kind of Heideggerian cryptic philosopher or anything even half as important, just a guy with an opinion I think is worth considering) but I do want you to see what I was getting at with what you call nonsensical assertions, and I hope that if you look at them in the context of what I've said here, you will see that they are not nonsensical, but just not fully explained due to my being not quite as thorough as I could've been.